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Lahu
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 Post subject: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:12 pm 
Last night's chat about RP has been pretty interesting. I got the feeling that there is some interest in RP, but that people are often too lazy/tired/shy/etc. to engage in it, even though they might agree it could be fun.

As I think it would be nice if we could encourage more RP without pressuring people (remember it's all about having fun!), I would like to propose the following. This has actually been mentioned by Odiun (I think?) in reaction to my statement that on my Alliance guild, we have a separate channel for OOC and a separate channel for IC chat.

- Have a separate channel for IC chat, that you make use of completely voluntarily, only if you feel like it. As I understand the Elders had something like that before, but interest kind of dried up. Someone proposed using officer chat for this, but that Brambline has to set it up or something. In my Alliance guild (Lightsworn) we use a normal chat channel for OOC chat and the guild chat for IC chat, but for me it doesn't really matter what we decide eventually.
--> The idea is that people (that includes me) are generally lazy and also often shy/reserved to actually go someplace to seek out RP and talk with other characters face to face. If you RP in a channel, you can choose whether to take part or not, you don't have to take heed to physical appearances and movement, and you don't have to go anywhere special for that. We can pretend that we're using goblin buzzboxes or something to communicate, or just ignore the explanation completely. Also in this way, we won’t confuse IC and OOC chats, especially if the texts are in different colours.

- To break the ice, how about a really small little gathering, for nothing in particular, in one of our usual gathering places. There is the house in Ratchet, but it can even be in Orgrimmar if people are too lazy to go there (although it's a very short trip from Orgrimmar). We can just think up any excuse to go there, and it can be entirely spontaneous. We can tell stories, have dinner, just have a few drinks, comment on politics, etc. Don’t feel like you need a very extensive background story, and that people will question you about it (I used to feel that way in the beginning, but people very very rarely ask specific questions like that in my experience).

We can decide whether we know each other already or perhaps our characters will meet each other for the first time. Being in the same guild doesn’t mean that you’re ICly in the same guild (as the gatherings between Horde/Alliance sides can testify). If we don’t know each other, we can think of a reason for the gathering, eg. a famous NPCs birthday, or a market, a festival, anything like that.

- On a related note, and one that I think could be very nice, is some interaction with another guild. My guild on Alliance (Lightsworn) is a Light-based guild based in Theramore Keep. I thought up something like this:

A few (Alliance) Elders are travelling to go to an important summit or something. They are tired and decide to stop over in Theramore. They meet the Lightsworn and some discussion ensues. Lightsworn offer to escort them for part of the way. Maybe Horde will try to attack them or something else happens on the way. Always nice if friends meet friends! :D

So to summarize:

- I think we could have lots of fun doing more RP, but that perhaps there is a certain lack of initiative.
- So I would like to make it as easy and fun as possible for us to do, seeing that a lot of people don’t have much energy or don’t have much time to play.
- I have suggested above some ways in which to achieve this:
o have a separate chat channel for RP (doesn’t get much lazier than this :))
o have a very very small event with minimal planning or even completely spontaneous (if enough people are interested)
- Also, by writing little scenes/stories and posting them on the forum, we get to know each other’s characters and the relations between them better. This you can use in turn to flesh out your own character a bit. For example, I would like to post a little background for Lahu, hopefully I can get to that soon. But please don’t feel obliged to do that (or any of the above!).

Let me know what you think!

Lahu

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WoW characters on The Sha'tar:
Horde (The Elders): Lahu, Abigorwyn, Zigglix, Shroc
Alliance (not in Elders): Myralean, Nelkor, Nevdil
Main Alliance character Laemadae on Argent Dawn


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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:50 pm 
Sounds great, all we need is some background story and maybe some task to complete. Maybe something appropriate for each toon, like go steal this kill that and so on.
As for why we would gather in some place i suggest to use ingame mail with some kind of summon by the "dungeonmaster".



Damkina
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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:07 pm 
It might have changed since last I had much time to play, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure officers chat was meant for IC chat and guild chat for occ. It used to be the other way around but it got changed. :)

I'd like to do more RP stuff but I have to admit I feel I have to follow trough if I engage in RP and can't just run off to chase the dog out of the blue leaving people hanging :lol: Might just be in my head though. I'm shy.


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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:19 pm 
Lahu wrote:
I got the feeling that there is some interest in RP, but that people are often too lazy/tired/shy/etc. to engage in it, even though they might agree it could be fun.


This describes the situation to a T me thinks! At least this is how it is for me. I consider myself a roleplayer and I love to do it, but it does require some emotional investment. To create genuine and meaningful RP relationships, one needs to actually listen to what others are saying instead of merely shooting and showing off one's own fancy back story. And after listening, it would be preferable to remember the things people told you as well. For example:

A group sit around a camp fire and the topic of childhood comes up. Each takes their turn relaying some event that happened when they were young (mother died, father left, warlock attacked, scrouge helped blaa blaa) which shaped them into what they are today and why they chose the "line of work" (aka class) that they did.

Mary explains that her mother died at the hands of a rogue, so she trained herself to be one as well to get into the same social group, befriend her mother's murderer and finally get revenge by slicing his head off.

Bill explains that when he was an infant a plague came over their village and a beautiful priestess in white turned up and healed the whole village. So he decided he'd want to become a priest and help people too.


Add to this say 3 more childhood stories.

Now even if these stories were kept to such a short single sentance format as displayed above, that's still 5 stories to rememeber. Add to this that most roleplayers do tend to be in love with their own imagination and stories and will often ramble on and on before they get to the point. Oh no, now there is 10x to remember!

So why do we need to remember the things that people tell us around a camp fire? Well, if they were just random people our characters never met again, one could quite easily let it go in one ear and out the other, focussing only for the short time it took to sit and socialize with this particular group. But since we are a guild, one would assume our characters to care quite a bit about one another IC, at the very least have a sense of comradeship. It would be assumed that you'd make the effort to remember these things about your guildies.

Imagine one week after the camp fire discussion: Bill explains to his guildmates how uncanny it is that he crossed paths with "The Priest". Imagine Mary saying: "What priest?" What would have been nicer would have been: "Oh the one that saved your village from the plague? Gosh what are the chances!?"

Of course, we can't be expected to remember everything and I'm sure that most of us in this guild would bare no ill feelings if folks forgot the grand tale they told only last week. We're all busy adults with "more important things" that our brains need filling with, let alone remembering. However for roleplay to be truly immersive and magical, this is still something to consider.

This is just one of the many things that make roleplaying "work" and why I for one retreat to my solo grinding/questing/other brainless activity because I simply don't have the strength to get involved at the end of a hard day. Usually during the summer holidays it changes and I roleplay quite a bit.

So how to remedy the situation?

Lahu wrote:
Someone proposed using officer chat for this, but that Brambline has to set it up or something.


Before last December officer chat was where we chatted like we do now in guild chat. And guild chat was reserved for roleplaying. But since there is more OOC than IC chatter, it just seemed more practical to switch them around. /officer is our RP/IC channel and should work nicely for anyone. It's a default channel provided by WoW so I don't have to set anything up at all. We all have officer chat, we just need to make sure it's visible from the chat settings. Check here for how to adjust settings for chats.


Lahu wrote:
In my Alliance guild (Lightsworn) we use a normal chat channel for OOC chat and the guild chat for IC chat, but for me it doesn't really matter what we decide eventually.


What do you mean by "normal chat channel"?


Lahu wrote:
If you RP in a channel, you can choose whether to take part or not, you don't have to take heed to physical appearances and movement, and you don't have to go anywhere special for that. We can pretend that we're using goblin buzzboxes or something to communicate, or just ignore the explanation completely. Also in this way, we won’t confuse IC and OOC chats, especially if the texts are in different colours.


Yep this is exactly how it worked in the Elders back in the day. In fact when the guild first started most of the chat was in RP because it felt safer that way because we didn't know one another. But as guildies started to open up to one another OOC, we got closer and more familiar and after that RP felt almost like we were being distant towards one another so the more we got to know one another, the more the RP died off.

Our rules explain about the two chats and folks should always feel free to talk IC in officer chat. Never feel bashful about doing it, we're all adults here and are not judgemental like you will often find with very young folks. If I am online and anyone talks IC, I will usually engage in conversation IC unless I'm in a dungeon or something.

Lahu wrote:
To break the ice, how about a really small little gathering, for nothing in particular, in one of our usual gathering places. There is the house in Ratchet, but it can even be in Orgrimmar if people are too lazy to go there (although it's a very short trip from Orgrimmar). We can just think up any excuse to go there, and it can be entirely spontaneous. We can tell stories, have dinner, just have a few drinks, comment on politics, etc. Don’t feel like you need a very extensive background story, and that people will question you about it (I used to feel that way in the beginning, but people very very rarely ask specific questions like that in my experience).


Again, folks are more than welcome to initiate and organize such things. It'd be great in fact. Meetings could be either for both factions combined or separate, which would cater to a more intimate experience. Lahu if you feel like starting something like this, feel free to go ahead! We had one member who organized these about a year back and they were a great success for the time that they lasted. I think he quit wow or something soon after.

Lahu wrote:
A few (Alliance) Elders are travelling to go to an important summit or something. They are tired and decide to stop over in Theramore. They meet the Lightsworn and some discussion ensues. Lightsworn offer to escort them for part of the way. Maybe Horde will try to attack them or something else happens on the way. Always nice if friends meet friends! :D


I've experienced these kinds of things in other RP guilds and they've been great fun! However, one thing to remember is that this guild is not a typical RP guild. Where most guilds have a backstory and a set of goals, while members have hierarchy and allocated duties, our guild has none of that and that's how I want to keep it. If our guild takes part in such events, it will need to stay very informal and flexible, open to the fact that we are just a group of floating characters. We'd need to keep it very loose since we can't even claim ourselves to be "the elders of the land" IC since a lot of our alts, especially low level alts we may be playing as youngsters until they level up.

Lahu wrote:
I think we could have lots of fun doing more RP, but that perhaps there is a certain lack of initiative.

This is true in both respects. I have always said that I do not obligate myself (as the guild master) to organize these things, instead those who are interested in doing so feel free to go ahead. That's why all members are able to make calendar events as well. Even newcomers (if I remember right).

Lahu wrote:
So I would like to make it as easy and fun as possible for us to do, seeing that a lot of people don’t have much energy or don’t have much time to play.


Keeping it casual and light is probably the best way, even if it's in Orgrimmar like you say. (for the horde that is)

Lahu wrote:
have a separate chat channel for RP (doesn’t get much lazier than this :))

This we already have: /officer or /o

Lahu wrote:
have a very very small event with minimal planning or even completely spontaneous (if enough people are interested)

Sounds good!

Lahu wrote:
Also, by writing little scenes/stories and posting them on the forum, we get to know each other’s characters and the relations between them better. This you can use in turn to flesh out your own character a bit. For example, I would like to post a little background for Lahu, hopefully I can get to that soon. But please don’t feel obliged to do that (or any of the above!).

This is great for those roleplayers who enjoy this kind of thing, but it's good to remember that there are also roleplayers like myself who don't want to learn anything beforehand, but instead prefer to learn about the other character in the most realistic and organic way possible: talking IC in the game, spending time together and learning little bits and pieces as they go along. Personally for me I hate backstories and it just feels odd to meet a character in the game for the first time yet know everything about them already. It dilutes the way I react to the things they explain to me and causes my reactions to feel rigid and heartless.

"My father died when I was little"
"I'm sorry to heart that" vs "Oh how horrible? How did that happen?"

One is just not inclined to ask "how did it happen" if you already read the whole story on a forum. :)

In any case, great initiative Lahu, let's hope we get some action going on this front! I for one will be very happy to take part in anything folks cook up if I happen to be online or free.

_________________
SWTOR:
Empire: Brambline [GM], Mitisa
Republic: Lulai [GM], Shalestina, Saphireena

WoW:
Horde: Brambline [GM], Jezaline, Brula, Gruzie, Bita
Alliance: Lulai [GM], Shalestina, Felunia, Ferocia, Belaguine, Saphireena, Grunilla, Mitisa, Fasha, Ferabine



Lahu
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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:58 pm 
Damkina wrote:
I'd like to do more RP stuff but I have to admit I feel I have to follow trough if I engage in RP and can't just run off to chase the dog out of the blue leaving people hanging :lol: Might just be in my head though. I'm shy.

What we do in the Lightsworn in such cases is that you simply type /afk in a normal position and everybody will understand that you're not available for a little while. That's actually quite normal when there is a meeting or ceremony or such and it's not expected of you to be speaking all of the time. If it's not possible then you can always think of an IC excuse to leave and come back later.

_________________
WoW characters on The Sha'tar:
Horde (The Elders): Lahu, Abigorwyn, Zigglix, Shroc
Alliance (not in Elders): Myralean, Nelkor, Nevdil
Main Alliance character Laemadae on Argent Dawn



Lahu
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:14 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Netherlands
 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:24 pm 
Thanks for your feedback Brambline!
Brambline wrote:
Of course, we can't be expected to remember everything and I'm sure that most of us in this guild would bare no ill feelings if folks forgot the grand tale they told only last week. We're all busy adults with "more important things" that our brains need filling with, let alone remembering. However for roleplay to be truly immersive and magical, this is still something to consider.

This is just one of the many things that make roleplaying "work" and why I for one retreat to my solo grinding/questing/other brainless activity because I simply don't have the strength to get involved at the end of a hard day. Usually during the summer holidays it changes and I roleplay quite a bit.

So how to remedy the situation?

The best remedy in my experience is that those stories should actually happen in-game, with other guild members. If that’s not possible, try to often bring up some relevant facts during RP, especially if it’s relevant to a situation.

For example, Gaebriel of Sunshine (Lightsworn leader) is a human who sincerely believes that all undead should be purged – even though he respects his King’s wishes to fight together with death knights, he will expect them to eventually cease to exist (or be killed) before peace can be achieved. There are a lot of situations where he can mention this fact, and he even mentions it in OOC chat occasionally (only if we are discussing these things). Also the fact that he grew up in Westfall as a farm hand, and details like that.

My alliance main Laemadae, a draenei mage, has survived the Exodar crash only because her mentor sacrificed his life to save her. I have mentioned this occasionally. She also has a brother that disappeared. It seemed that he was killed and resurrected as a death knight, was a member of the Ebon Blade but left them for various reasons. I do not expect a lot of people to know these facts, so I bring it up every now and then when we discuss our past. Now a lot of people in my guild at least know about this missing death knight brother, although this knowledge may disappear again if I don’t follow up on the story for a while.

I think the key here is to RP frequently, not necessarily heavily but just do a little bit of RP every time (or most times) you log in, even if only in the guild/officer channel. In fact the latter may even be better since non-RP’ing players can follow the discussion and also in this way learn about the characters of their guild mates. It can be as little as an IC greeting whenever you log in (eg. “Loktar Ogar” if you’re an orc) and out (eg. “Earth Mother bless you all” if you’re a tauren). It doesn’t have to lead to an actual IC conversation, but will help you to get used to being in the skin of your character.
Brambline wrote:
We all have officer chat, we just need to make sure it's visible from the chat settings. Check here for how to adjust settings for chats.

Thanks!
Brambline wrote:
Lahu wrote:
In my Alliance guild (Lightsworn) we use a normal chat channel for OOC chat and the guild chat for IC chat, but for me it doesn't really matter what we decide eventually.


What do you mean by "normal chat channel"?

Uncoloured, like trade and general chat.
Brambline wrote:
If I am online and anyone talks IC, I will usually engage in conversation IC unless I'm in a dungeon or something.

That is nice, but I’m pretty sure no one also expects you to react ICly if you don’t want to, this should be entirely voluntary. But I agree sometimes a little effort is what’s needed to stimulate greater interest.
Brambline wrote:
Lahu wrote:
To break the ice, how about a really small little gathering, for nothing in particular, in one of our usual gathering places. There is the house in Ratchet, but it can even be in Orgrimmar if people are too lazy to go there (although it's a very short trip from Orgrimmar). We can just think up any excuse to go there, and it can be entirely spontaneous. We can tell stories, have dinner, just have a few drinks, comment on politics, etc. Don’t feel like you need a very extensive background story, and that people will question you about it (I used to feel that way in the beginning, but people very very rarely ask specific questions like that in my experience).


Again, folks are more than welcome to initiate and organize such things. It'd be great in fact. Meetings could be either for both factions combined or separate, which would cater to a more intimate experience. Lahu if you feel like starting something like this, feel free to go ahead! We had one member who organized these about a year back and they were a great success for the time that they lasted. I think he quit wow or something soon after.

Great, I think all we need is a nice IC reason to gather, it can be as mundane as trading goods in my opinion. Will try it when I get the chance.
Brambline wrote:
Lahu wrote:
A few (Alliance) Elders are travelling to go to an important summit or something. They are tired and decide to stop over in Theramore. They meet the Lightsworn and some discussion ensues. Lightsworn offer to escort them for part of the way. Maybe Horde will try to attack them or something else happens on the way. Always nice if friends meet friends! :D


I've experienced these kinds of things in other RP guilds and they've been great fun! However, one thing to remember is that this guild is not a typical RP guild. Where most guilds have a backstory and a set of goals, while members have hierarchy and allocated duties, our guild has none of that and that's how I want to keep it. If our guild takes part in such events, it will need to stay very informal and flexible, open to the fact that we are just a group of floating characters. We'd need to keep it very loose since we can't even claim ourselves to be "the elders of the land" IC since a lot of our alts, especially low level alts we may be playing as youngsters until they level up.

Good points, I agree. Perhaps it can still be something like that, except it can be just a group of (old) folk traveling somewhere for some reason in need of protection (or whatever), and they don’t have to ICly belong to an actual guild. For this kind of thing you don’t really need a lot of back story to make it work in my opinion. Spontaneous is often better!
Brambline wrote:
Lahu wrote:
I think we could have lots of fun doing more RP, but that perhaps there is a certain lack of initiative.

This is true in both respects. I have always said that I do not obligate myself (as the guild master) to organize these things, instead those who are interested in doing so feel free to go ahead. That's why all members are able to make calendar events as well. Even newcomers (if I remember right).

I’m not a big organizer myself, and I rarely plan ahead on my WoW time, so in my case it will always be light and flexible, if I decide to go ahead with something like that.
Brambline wrote:
Lahu wrote:
Also, by writing little scenes/stories and posting them on the forum, we get to know each other’s characters and the relations between them better. This you can use in turn to flesh out your own character a bit. For example, I would like to post a little background for Lahu, hopefully I can get to that soon. But please don’t feel obliged to do that (or any of the above!).

This is great for those roleplayers who enjoy this kind of thing, but it's good to remember that there are also roleplayers like myself who don't want to learn anything beforehand, but instead prefer to learn about the other character in the most realistic and organic way possible: talking IC in the game, spending time together and learning little bits and pieces as they go along. Personally for me I hate backstories and it just feels odd to meet a character in the game for the first time yet know everything about them already. It dilutes the way I react to the things they explain to me and causes my reactions to feel rigid and heartless.

"My father died when I was little"
"I'm sorry to heart that" vs "Oh how horrible? How did that happen?"

One is just not inclined to ask "how did it happen" if you already read the whole story on a forum. :)

Good points again, but I still think that having a story posted somewhere is a great reference and shouldn’t dilute the experience as long as you don’t expect any of the other characters to have actually read it. In my opinion it’s just a way to (1) figure out your story for yourself more clearly and (2) have something that contains more details about things you already mentioned in-game (and that other people can look up if they really want to). Stories are entirely complementary, the main character development should happen in-game (my opinion).
Brambline wrote:
In any case, great initiative Lahu, let's hope we get some action going on this front! I for one will be very happy to take part in anything folks cook up if I happen to be online or free.

I will be around in the weekend, let’s see what will happen!

Lahu

_________________
WoW characters on The Sha'tar:
Horde (The Elders): Lahu, Abigorwyn, Zigglix, Shroc
Alliance (not in Elders): Myralean, Nelkor, Nevdil
Main Alliance character Laemadae on Argent Dawn



Lahu
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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:26 pm 
Sorry for double (triple!) posting but just a little something that I would like to add. I think a great source of inspiration to read up on lore (just take a few minutes off every now and then). For example, I plan to read up a bit more about tauren - even though I have a little back story in my head for Lahu it would be hard to be specific with certain aspects such as the names of important NPCs, places, and such, but also important historical events such as the Third War, the forming of the Horde, etc., and how your character fits in with all that. Also it's always nice to know a bit more of the history and culture of the race of your character to give it more flavour and realism. It's also useful to check out the official WoW forums (not "general", but "RP" and also "The Sha'tar") to get up to date with current affairs.

I always felt like lore knowledge was one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me to RP succesfully. While it's true that you need at least a basic bit of knowledge about the world (i.e. that humans and orcs don't like each other, the Scourge is everyone's enemy, Forsaken and death knights are undead that have broken away from the Scourge, etc.) to have a more immersive kind of roleplay, I found that the best way is to just dive in and learn along the way (which is pretty much the way the gameplay of WoW is designed as well). It's surprising how much you can learn by just reading little by little every now and then (and when doing quests, actually reading the text :)).

_________________
WoW characters on The Sha'tar:
Horde (The Elders): Lahu, Abigorwyn, Zigglix, Shroc
Alliance (not in Elders): Myralean, Nelkor, Nevdil
Main Alliance character Laemadae on Argent Dawn


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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:39 am 
For those of us who are Pacifists you wouldnt go wrong by reading through this http://www.wowwiki.com/Tauren

Mainly this bit " The tauren are a race of shamans, hunters, and warriors who long ago developed a complex culture and system of living without the aid of stonework, steel or conquest. This is not to say that the tauren are a race of pacifists, for when they are angered they are capable of retaliating with swift and decisive brutality. Tauren are, in a word, stoic, embodying the strong and silent type with their quiet contemplation. This introspective air combined with their immense size can lead a person to understand as to "why" many regard the tauren as a wise and dangerous race. Tauren rarely speak unless there is a true reason to, preferring to act instead of talk.

Tauren have no love for bloodshed, as their deep spiritual beliefs do not have a place for warfare. The elders of a tribe solve most issues, or two tauren might resolve a conflict with a ritual challenge resembling a duel. Having become members of the Horde, the introspective race has been involved in more and more conflict, creating a demand for tauren warriors and healers. Many must spend time putting great thought into the actions they perform on the field of battle. Taking another life, whether it is man or beast, is an act filled with great significance and responsibility to the tauren"

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 Post subject: Re: Making RP fun and easy
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:46 am 
I had lots of fun RPing last night at the guildmeeting but its not easy to roleplay a bit of a nihilist undead rogue :wink:


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